Season 9, Episode 14

Your questions answered, with Claude Goldenberg and Susan Lambert

In this special episode of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Susan Lambert is joined by Claude Goldenberg, Ph.D.,  professor of education, emeritus, at Stanford University, to answer questions from our listener mailbag. Together they address a wide range of topics facing today’s educators, such as what to do when your school implements conflicting materials, how to support students who are two or three grade levels behind, best practices for teaching multilingual learners, and more!

Smiling man with a beard poses in front of a book and lightbulb patterned background.

Meet Our Guest(s):

Claude Goldenberg, Ph.D.

Claude Goldenberg, Ph.D.

Claude Goldenberg, Ph.D., is the Nomellini & Olivier professor of education, emeritus faculty, Graduate School of Education at Stanford University. He received his A.B. in history from Princeton University and his M.A. and Ph.D. from the Graduate School of Education at UCLA. A native of Argentina, he has taught junior high school in San Antonio and first grade in a bilingual elementary school in Los Angeles. His areas of research centered on promoting academic achievement among language minority students, particularly those from Spanish-speaking backgrounds. Dr. Goldenberg currently works on promoting research, policy, and practices to enhance literacy and academic development among students not yet proficient in English.

Meet our host, Susan Lambert

Susan Lambert is the Chief Academic Officer of Elementary Humanities at Amplify, and the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast. Throughout her career, she has focused on creating high-quality learning environments using evidence-based practices. Lambert is a mom of four, a grandma of four, a world traveler, and a collector of stories.

As the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Lambert explores the increasing body of scientific research around how reading is best taught. As a former classroom teacher, administrator, and curriculum developer, Lambert is dedicated to turning theory into best practices that educators can put right to use in the classroom, and to showcasing national models of reading instruction excellence.

Retrato de una mujer caucásica sonriente con cabello rubio corto, involucrada en un podcast sobre la ciencia de la lectura, con gafas, lápiz labial rojo y un collar de perlas.

Quotes

“Incrementalism is just not going to serve our purpose unless you want to keep things as they are. And I hate to say this, Susan … some people wouldn't mind leaving things as they are. And we can't do that, and we can't do it incrementally. We've got to really move, like last year.”

—Claude Goldenberg

“You’ve got to understand how [two programs] fit together and what the purpose is. Giving teachers materials that are literally incoherent and don't fit with each other is not the answer.”

—Claude Goldenberg

“We need to have a system … using the best knowledge that we have systematically throughout the state, throughout the country, with systems that pick up kids who are at risk and don't let them fail.”

—Claude Goldenberg

Season 9, Episode 13

Empowering instruction through mental models, with Young-Suk Grace Kim, Ed.D.

In this episode of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Susan Lambert is joined by Young-Suk Grace Kim,  a professor at University of California at Irvine School of Education. Dr. Kim begins by defining a theoretical model, outlining its value to teachers as it pertains to literacy instruction. She describes her own interactive dynamic literacy (IDL) model, which seeks to more fully explain reading and writing connections. Dr. Kim emphasizes how reading and writing function as a powerful and closely related system, and examines how this system interacts with developmental phases, linguistic grain size, and reading and writing difficulties, including dyslexia. After navigating the complexities of this conversation, Susan ends the episode by sharing her unique insights and takeaways from her time with Dr. Kim.

Person with short hair and glasses smiling, wearing a suit jacket. Background pattern includes books, pencils, and lightbulbs.

Meet Our Guest(s):

Young-Suk Grace Kim, Ed.D.

Young-Suk Grace Kim, Ed.D.

Young-Suk Grace Kim, Ed.D., (Harvard University) is a professor at the School of Education, University of California at Irvine. She is a former classroom teacher in San Francisco. Her scholarship focuses on understanding language and literacy development and effective instruction for children from diverse backgrounds. Her areas of research include reading comprehension, reading fluency, listening comprehension and oral language, dyslexia, higher-order cognitive skills, written composition, and reading-writing relations. She has worked extensively with monolingual children and multilingual children from various linguistic backgrounds including English, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, and Kiswahili. Her research has been supported by over $60 million in grants from the Institute of Education Sciences, the U. S. Department of Education, the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, and the National Science Foundation. Her work was recognized by several awards, including the 2012 Presidential Early Career Award for Scientists and Engineers (PECASE) by former President Barack Obama, the Developing Scholar Award, and the Robert M. Gagne Outstanding Student Research Award. She is an American Educational Research Association (AERA) Fellow, and serves as the editor-in-chief for Scientific Studies of Reading and the chair of the California Reading Difficulties Risk Screener Selection Panel (RDRSSP), appointed by the California State Board of Education.

Meet our host, Susan Lambert

Susan Lambert is the Chief Academic Officer of Elementary Humanities at Amplify, and the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast. Throughout her career, she has focused on creating high-quality learning environments using evidence-based practices. Lambert is a mom of four, a grandma of four, a world traveler, and a collector of stories.

As the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Lambert explores the increasing body of scientific research around how reading is best taught. As a former classroom teacher, administrator, and curriculum developer, Lambert is dedicated to turning theory into best practices that educators can put right to use in the classroom, and to showcasing national models of reading instruction excellence.

Retrato de una mujer caucásica sonriente con cabello rubio corto, involucrada en un podcast sobre la ciencia de la lectura, con gafas, lápiz labial rojo y un collar de perlas.

Quotes

“Theory is an explanation about how things work. …It's a structured framework, a mental framework, that helps us explain, and predict, and understand phenomena.”

—Young-Suk Grace Kim, Ed.D.

“Theoretical models matter because they offer insights into the processes of reading and writing, as well as factors that contribute to the development of reading and writing skills and/or difficulties in development. Teachers' understanding of this will empower them to make decisions about instructional approaches.”

—Young-Suk Grace Kim, Ed.D.

“Lower order skills are necessary for higher order skills—that means skills and knowledge have a series of causal effects. So if you flip it the other way—any challenges…skills—it's going to have a series of impacts on higher order skills.”

—Young-Suk Grace Kim, Ed.D.

“A lot of educators understand that reading and writing are related, but I think as educators, we need to have a really precise understanding about it. We need to have a good mental model about how they're related and why they're related, so that we can use that knowledge to inform our instruction and assessment.”

—Young-Suk Grace Kim, Ed.D.

“If an educator goes to a professional development and learns about something like phoneme awareness…but you don't have a framework in which to attach it, you can sort of go down a rabbit trail on one thing instead of thinking about how it relates to the whole.”

—Susan Lambert

Season 9, Episode 12

Explicit instruction of academic language, with Adrea Truckenmiller, Ph.D.

In this episode of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Susan Lambert is joined by Adrea Truckenmiller,  associate professor of special education and school psychology at Michigan State University. Their conversation starts with defining academic language and breaking it down on the level of the word, the sentence, and full text. Adrea then touches on topics such as informational vs. narrative text structure, morphological complexity, and effective writing assessment. She also gives advice on how to implement explicit instruction on informational text and academic language, and details a few examples of what it can look like in the classroom. Adrea ends by discussing her passion for special education and encouraging educators to get involved.

Portrait of a smiling woman with shoulder-length brown hair, wearing a black top, set against a blurred outdoor background, framed by a circular graphic with book and pencil icons.

Meet Our Guest(s):

Adrea Truckenmiller

Adrea Truckenmiller

Adrea Truckenmiller, Ph.D., NCSP, is an associate professor of special education and school psychology at Michigan State University. She’s the lead author of the Writing Architect, a digital tool that combines an innovative curriculum-based measure of informational writing with instructional practices grounded in research to meet the diverse needs of students in grades 3–8. She also co-created MSU’s master’s degree program for leadership in studying and implementing the Multi-Tiered System of Supports framework. Prior to her time at MSU, Truckenmiller was a researcher at the Florida Center for Reading Research. There, she directed the development of screening and diagnostic assessments for reading and writing, as well as state-wide professional development to accompany them and inform differentiated instruction. She has published more than 40 articles and was awarded more than $5 million in external funding for her research on reading and writing development. She serves as associate editor for the Journal of School Psychology and the Elementary School Journal and sits on the editorial board of five other journals. Learn more at atruck.msu.domains.

Meet our host, Susan Lambert

Susan Lambert is the Chief Academic Officer of Elementary Humanities at Amplify, and the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast. Throughout her career, she has focused on creating high-quality learning environments using evidence-based practices. Lambert is a mom of four, a grandma of four, a world traveler, and a collector of stories.

As the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Lambert explores the increasing body of scientific research around how reading is best taught. As a former classroom teacher, administrator, and curriculum developer, Lambert is dedicated to turning theory into best practices that educators can put right to use in the classroom, and to showcasing national models of reading instruction excellence.

Retrato de una mujer caucásica sonriente con cabello rubio corto, involucrada en un podcast sobre la ciencia de la lectura, con gafas, lápiz labial rojo y un collar de perlas.

Quotes

“When we're thinking about teaching academic vocabulary, of course in the context of content, [it’s important to note] that it's not just a one time around, that sometimes we have to layer that instruction for deeper and deeper and deeper meaning.”

—Susan Lambert

“ Academic language is really a new language for everyone to learn.”

—Adrea Truckenmiller

Season 9, Episode 11

Writing the way to better reading, with Judith Hochman, Ed.D.

In this episode of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Susan Lambert is joined by Judith Hochman, coauthor of The Writing Revolution. Their conversation begins as Dr. Hochman recalls the early days of writing instruction and research, then delves into the connection between better writing and better reading. Dr. Hochman touches upon topics such as writing comprehension, her experience implementing writing instruction as a classroom teacher and as an administrator, and how the writing revolution came to be. She also answers a question from our listener mailbag, providing a detailed overview of the scope and sequence for transitioning student writing from sentence composition to paragraphs to whole texts.

Elderly person with short white hair smiling, surrounded by a border with a background of lightbulb, book, and pencil icons.

Meet Our Guest(s):

Judith C. Hochman

Judith C. Hochman

Judith Hochman, Ed.D., is the former head of The Windward School and the founder of the Windward Teacher Training Institute in White Plains, New York, as well as the former superintendent of the Greenburgh Graham Free School District in Hastings-on-Hudson, New York. She is the founder of The Writing Revolution, a not-for-profit organization which disseminates evidence-based strategies for writing instruction. Dr. Hochman is the author of Basic Writing Skills: A Manual for Teachers and coauthor of The Writing Revolution: A Guide to Advancing Thinking Through Writing in All Subjects and Grades (2017, 2024).

Meet our host, Susan Lambert

Susan Lambert is the Chief Academic Officer of Elementary Humanities at Amplify, and the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast. Throughout her career, she has focused on creating high-quality learning environments using evidence-based practices. Lambert is a mom of four, a grandma of four, a world traveler, and a collector of stories.

As the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Lambert explores the increasing body of scientific research around how reading is best taught. As a former classroom teacher, administrator, and curriculum developer, Lambert is dedicated to turning theory into best practices that educators can put right to use in the classroom, and to showcasing national models of reading instruction excellence.

Retrato de una mujer caucásica sonriente con cabello rubio corto, involucrada en un podcast sobre la ciencia de la lectura, con gafas, lápiz labial rojo y un collar de perlas.

Quotes

“I had an epiphany that our students really had to learn writing as a second language.”

—Judith Hochman

“Having students write a lot is not teaching writing. It's just like if you put a lot of books in a classroom, students don't magically begin to read.”

—Judith Hochman

“I often talk to teachers and remind them that they can be their own researchers in their own classrooms—to try something small… . Watch to see the impact that it has; make adjustments when needed, and if it's working for the kids and you're actually seeing outcomes.”

—Susan Lambert

“This is not learned by osmosis, and it's not learned by vague feedback like, ‘Make it better,’ or, ‘Add more details.’ You've got to be very granular. This is not a naturally occurring skill in human development for any of us.”

—Judith Hochman

“What's good for elementary school is good for high school and beyond. The principles of teaching someone how to write coherently and with clarity don't change.”

—Judith Hochman

Season 9, Episode 10

Phonology as a settled science, with Jane Ashby, Ph.D.

In this episode of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Susan Lambert is joined by Jane Ashby, professor in the Reading Science doctoral program at Mount St. Joseph University. The two define the concept of “settled science” as a jumping-off point before digging into phonology and the argument for not always basing your teaching practice on the newest research. Dr. Ashby touches on the impact of phonology on comprehension, the Matthew Effect, and why the term “instant words” is more accurate than “sight words.” You’ll walk away from this episode with two practical exercises Dr. Ashby recommends for teaching students to transfer oral segmenting and blending to reading and writing tasks.

A smiling person with glasses and gray hair is featured in a circular frame against a background filled with book, pencil, and lightbulb icons, symbolizing the journey of reading and writing. This image perfectly illustrates themes from the Science of Reading podcast on teaching phonological awareness.

Meet Our Guest(s):

Jane Ashby, Ph.D.

Jane Ashby, Ph.D.

Dr. Ashby’s reading journey started 30 years ago. She pursued an Ed.M. at the Harvard Graduate School of Education, then taught adult learners who struggled with reading. This led her to deepen her instruction skills by studying the Orton-Gillingham approach at Massachusetts General Hospital. She supported teachers and students facing reading disorders in the Columbus area, then returned to school to study how readers get the words off the page during silent reading. She earned a doctorate in psychology from the University of Massachusetts, and in 2009, joined the Psychology Department at Central Michigan University, where her eye movement lab investigated the role of speech processes in silent reading. She coauthored the book Psychology of Reading (2012) as well as several papers examining the role of phonology in silent reading. During her sabbatical, Dr. Ashby supported teachers in Vermont who were developing more effective literacy practices. In her spare time, she enjoys reading and outdoor adventures.

Meet our host, Susan Lambert

Susan Lambert is the Chief Academic Officer of Elementary Humanities at Amplify, and the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast. Throughout her career, she has focused on creating high-quality learning environments using evidence-based practices. Lambert is a mom of four, a grandma of four, a world traveler, and a collector of stories.

As the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Lambert explores the increasing body of scientific research around how reading is best taught. As a former classroom teacher, administrator, and curriculum developer, Lambert is dedicated to turning theory into best practices that educators can put right to use in the classroom, and to showcasing national models of reading instruction excellence.

Retrato de una mujer caucásica sonriente con cabello rubio corto, involucrada en un podcast sobre la ciencia de la lectura, con gafas, lápiz labial rojo y un collar de perlas.

Season 9, Episode 9

Identify Developmental Language Disorder in your classroom, with Tiffany Hogan, Ph.D.

In this episode of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Susan Lambert is joined by Tiffany Hogan, a professor at MGH Institute of Health Professions in Boston, who studies  the connections among speech and language and literacy across time in children. Together, Susan and Dr. Hogan explore the complexities of language, the components that form language, and the significance of language for literacy. Dr. Hogan explains Developmental Language Disorder (DLD)—its characteristics, its prevalence, and the challenges in recognizing it. She emphasizes the importance of supporting children with DLD and the role of educators in making a difference long-term. She also provides listeners with effective strategies for supporting children with oral language deficits, offers insights into the relationship between background knowledge and language, and answers questions from our listener mailbag.

A woman with curly hair and glasses smiles at the camera. She is wearing a black top and a pearl necklace. The background features a pattern of books, lightbulbs, and pencils.

Meet Our Guest(s):

Tiffany P. Hogan, Ph.D.

Tiffany P. Hogan, Ph.D.

Tiffany P. Hogan, Ph.D., CCC-SLP, is a professor at MGH Institute of Health Professions in Boston and director of the Speech and Language (SAiL) Literacy Lab, and a research associate at Harvard Medical School. Dr. Hogan has published over 100 papers on the genetic, neurologic, and behavioral links between oral and written language development. Her focus is on improving assessment and intervention in schools, especially for neurodiverse children with Developmental Language Disorder, dyslexia, and/or Speech Sound Disorders. Her advocacy for children with language, speech, and literacy differences led her to co-found a DLD informational website, DLD and Me, and host a podcast, SeeHearSpeak.

Meet our host, Susan Lambert

Susan Lambert is the Chief Academic Officer of Elementary Humanities at Amplify, and the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast. Throughout her career, she has focused on creating high-quality learning environments using evidence-based practices. Lambert is a mom of four, a grandma of four, a world traveler, and a collector of stories.

As the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Lambert explores the increasing body of scientific research around how reading is best taught. As a former classroom teacher, administrator, and curriculum developer, Lambert is dedicated to turning theory into best practices that educators can put right to use in the classroom, and to showcasing national models of reading instruction excellence.

Retrato de una mujer caucásica sonriente con cabello rubio corto, involucrada en un podcast sobre la ciencia de la lectura, con gafas, lápiz labial rojo y un collar de perlas.

Quotes

“Neurodiversity means that we have lots of different ways to think, and we each come to the table with different brain structures.”

—Tiffany Hogan, Ph.D.

“Oral language difficulties are a crystal ball into reading comprehension.”

—Tiffany Hogan, Ph.D.

“You, as an educator, can be the one that really makes a difference for that child. It only takes one person to make a huge difference in the life of a child.”

—Tiffany Hogan, Ph.D.

“When I'm thinking out something complex, I'll want to write it out, so that I can see where the holes are in my thinking. It's really this reciprocal relationship between the concepts or the knowledge we have and the language we have to convey that knowledge.”

—Tiffany Hogan, Ph.D.

“As our conceptual knowledge builds, our language ability will build. So there's really a bidirectionality that occurs between background knowledge and language.”

—Tiffany Hogan, Ph.D.

Season 9, Episode 8

Cognitive science-informed teaching, with Natalie Wexler

In this episode, Susan Lambert rejoins podcast alum Natalie Wexler to discuss Natalie’s new book Beyond the Science of Reading: Connecting Literacy Instruction to the Science of Learning. Listeners will gain insights into why this topic is important, what this book offers educators, why Natalie was so drawn to writing this book, and what cognitive science-informed teaching looks like in general. Natalie addresses how cognitive load theory works in practice with literacy, misconceptions about focusing only on phonics, and scaling science-informed instruction. Natalie also answers a question from the listener mailbag about encouraging colleagues to adopt an evidence-based approach.

Meet Our Guest(s):

Natalie Wexler

Natalie Wexler

Natalie Wexler is the author of Beyond the Science of Reading: Connecting Literacy Instruction to the Science of Learning, coming from ASCD on Jan. 21, 2025. She is also the author of The Knowledge Gap: The Hidden Cause of America’s Broken Education System—and How to Fix It and the co-author, with Judith C. Hochman, Ed.D., of The Writing Revolution: A Guide to Advancing Thinking Through Writing in All Subjects and Grades. She has a free Substack newsletter called Minding the Gap, and she was the host of the Reading Comprehension Revisited podcast, Season One. More information is available on her website, www.nataliewexler.com.

Meet our host, Susan Lambert

Susan Lambert is the Chief Academic Officer of Elementary Humanities at Amplify, and the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast. Throughout her career, she has focused on creating high-quality learning environments using evidence-based practices. Lambert is a mom of four, a grandma of four, a world traveler, and a collector of stories.

As the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Lambert explores the increasing body of scientific research around how reading is best taught. As a former classroom teacher, administrator, and curriculum developer, Lambert is dedicated to turning theory into best practices that educators can put right to use in the classroom, and to showcasing national models of reading instruction excellence.

Retrato de una mujer caucásica sonriente con cabello rubio corto, involucrada en un podcast sobre la ciencia de la lectura, con gafas, lápiz labial rojo y un collar de perlas.

Quotes

“We’re overlooking the ways in which the typical approach to teaching reading comprehension and writing actually conflict with what cognitive science tells us about how people learn to do those things.”

—Natalie Wexler

“We spend much more time trying to teach them to read, but we kind of expect them to just pick up writing. You know, for most kids, it does not happen.”

—Natalie Wexler

“No matter how good you are at making inferences, if you don't have the requisite background knowledge, you're not gonna be able to do it.”

—Natalie Wexler

“It doesn't work to just ask inexperienced writers to just write down stuff. That is not going to provide the cognitive benefits.”

—Natalie Wexler

“Language is connected to thinking. If you can talk and write in a more sophisticated way that reflects that you are thinking in a more sophisticated way.”

—Natalie Wexler

Season 9, Special Episode

Award-winning ways to put science into practice

Amplify’s 2024 Science of Reading Star Award winners share insights from their daily work. They reflect on why it’s so critical to stay grounded in evidence-based literacy practices and how they bring those practices into their schools and classrooms. Listeners will be inspired by the creative ideas of educators who are making a difference in the lives of students across the country. Winners honored in the episode in order of appearance are: Amber Hines, Vance County Schools, NC; Elizabeth Caton, Windber Area Elementary School, PA; Jamie Vannoy, Wirt County Primary Center, WV; Christine Michalik, Cicero School District 99, IL; Andrea Mason, County Line Elementary School, GA; A. Simone McQuaige, Prince George’s County Public Schools, MD.

Illustration of a gold star award ribbon surrounded by clouds and smaller stars on a green background, representing the science of reading.

Meet Our Guest(s):

Amber Hines, Elizabeth Caton, Jamie Vannoy, Christine Michalik, Andrea Mason, and A. Simone McQuaige

Amber Hines, Elizabeth Caton, Jamie Vannoy, Christine Michalik, Andrea Mason, and A. Simone McQuaige

Each of the 2024 Amplify Star Award winners have transformed their classrooms and empowered their students with the Science of Reading. These educators and leaders have gone above and beyond to light the path for students to pursue lifelong literacy. Award-winners featured in this episode include: Amber Hines, The Knowledge Builder; Elizabeth Caton, The Science of Reading Rookie; Jamie Vannoy, The Literacy Legend; Christine Michalik, The Knowledge Builder; Andrea Mason,The MTSS Maestro; and A. Simone McQuaige, The Changemaker.

Meet our host, Susan Lambert

Susan Lambert is the Chief Academic Officer of Elementary Humanities at Amplify, and the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast. Throughout her career, she has focused on creating high-quality learning environments using evidence-based practices. Lambert is a mom of four, a grandma of four, a world traveler, and a collector of stories.

As the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Lambert explores the increasing body of scientific research around how reading is best taught. As a former classroom teacher, administrator, and curriculum developer, Lambert is dedicated to turning theory into best practices that educators can put right to use in the classroom, and to showcasing national models of reading instruction excellence.

Retrato de una mujer caucásica sonriente con cabello rubio corto, involucrada en un podcast sobre la ciencia de la lectura, con gafas, lápiz labial rojo y un collar de perlas.

Quotes

“There is no, ‘Let's try this. Let's try that.’ When it's evidence based, you know that it's proven to be effective.”

—Amber Hines

“It's important that we are aligning our practices to standards and what the students are required to do—but also what they need.”

—Elizabeth Caton

“If we don't make a conscious effort to utilize evidence-based practices, we are going to be failing our most at-risk populations.”

—Jamie Vannoy

“All students should have the opportunity for multiple readings of the same text to build comprehension, to build fluency.”

—Christine Michalik

“It's really important to utilize assessments, [to] make sure that my students are getting exactly what they need based on the data that I get from assessments, but also based on the data that I get from regular progress monitoring.”

—Andrea Mason

“This is not something that can be just done at the schoolhouse. It involves the community and all of our community stakeholders.”

—A. Simone McQuaige

Season 9, Special Episode

Lessons from the 2024 National Teacher of the Year

This week, we’re highlighting an episode of Beyond My Years, our sibling podcast that gives you exclusive access to all the wisdom of veteran educators. Beyond My Years host Ana Torres learns from the best as she sits down with 2024 National Teacher of the Year Missy Testerman. Missy teaches Ana about being open to new ideas and perspectives, offers tips on building relationships with families, and discusses the importance of slowing down. Missy doesn’t shy away from tough topics, like managing the “who knows best” struggles among administrators, teachers, and parents, and knowing when it’s time to step away from teaching, In addition, Classroom Insider Eric Cross and Ana discuss understanding your community, being more flexible in presenting your lessons, and seeking mentorship and continuous growth.

A person with gray hair smiles at the camera, embodying teacher advocacy. The background showcases a pattern of books, pencils, and light bulbs.

Meet Our Guest(s):

Missy Testerman

Missy Testerman

2024 National Teacher of the Year Missy Testerman is a kindergarten through eighth grade English as a Second Language (ESL) teacher who is a staunch advocate for students, teachers, and families. Missy prioritizes instruction that ensures her students have the skills and knowledge necessary to achieve. She served as a first and second grade teacher at Rogersville City School in Rogersville, Tennessee, for three decades before taking advantage of the state’s Grow Your Own initiative and adding an ESL endorsement three years ago.

During her year of service as National Teacher of the Year, she’s empowered teachers to advocate for students and fellow educators by using their voices and sharing their experiences with those outside the classroom.

Meet our host, Susan Lambert

Susan Lambert is the Chief Academic Officer of Elementary Humanities at Amplify, and the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast. Throughout her career, she has focused on creating high-quality learning environments using evidence-based practices. Lambert is a mom of four, a grandma of four, a world traveler, and a collector of stories.

As the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Lambert explores the increasing body of scientific research around how reading is best taught. As a former classroom teacher, administrator, and curriculum developer, Lambert is dedicated to turning theory into best practices that educators can put right to use in the classroom, and to showcasing national models of reading instruction excellence.

Retrato de una mujer caucásica sonriente con cabello rubio corto, involucrada en un podcast sobre la ciencia de la lectura, con gafas, lápiz labial rojo y un collar de perlas.

Quotes

“Find a mentor. Someone you trust. Listen to that person, watch that person, ask that person questions. You know, you don't have to figure this out on your own. People want to help you and you have to take that help. It's not a sign of weakness. It's a sign that you want to be better.”

—Missy Testerman

“I want them to be proud of where they came from, always, because that's part of their story. It's always going to be an important part of their story.”

—Missy Testerman

“I have no magic answers. I have some experiences and I have a little bit of wisdom from three decades of time spent in the education field, but I absolutely do not have it all figured out.”

—Missy Testerman

“The reality is that the journey toward wisdom in any career, especially in education, has to be slow and steady.”

—Missy Testerman

“We have to help guide our younger cohorts with our wisdom. But we also have to take pointers from them. They know lots of things that I do not know, things that I never learned how to do. They also were students more recently than I was … they remember what it feels like when this or that happens to you.”

—Missy Testerman

Season 9, Episode 7

Neurodiversity and the reading brain, with Ioulia Kovelman, Ph.D.

Susan is joined by Ioulia Kovelman, Ph.D., professor in the Department of Psychology at the University of Michigan, to give educators the perspective of a developmental cognitive neuroscientist on literacy development. Starting with the basics of cognitive science versus brain science, Ioulia gives a comprehensive overview into how the brain changes as children learn to read, including differences seen in neurodiverse students and multilingual/English learners. Ioulia then answers a question from our listener mailbag on neuroscience and dyslexia and how current research can inform teaching strategies. Ioulia ends with a rallying message that scientists, teachers, and children cannot stand alone and need to find ways to connect with each other to strengthen literacy as a whole.

A woman with brown hair smiling, set against a light-colored background with book and pencil icons.

Meet Our Guest(s):

Ioulia Kovelman, Ph.D.

Ioulia Kovelman, Ph.D.

Ioulia Kovelman, Ph.D., is a professor of Psychology at the University of Michigan. She studies literacy development in children who speak English and other languages. As a developmental cognitive neuroscientist, she uses a child-friendly functional Near Infrared Spectroscopy (fNRS) brain-imaging method to examine how learning to read changes children’s language, cognition, and brain. These studies include research with typically developing readers and at-risk learners such as those with dyslexia and developmental language disorders (DLD). In her current research, Ioulia focuses on children learning to speak and read in English, Spanish, and Chinese. Through this work, she addresses the universal, language-specific, and bilingual influences on child reading development and dyslexia.

Meet our host, Susan Lambert

Susan Lambert is the Chief Academic Officer of Elementary Humanities at Amplify, and the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast. Throughout her career, she has focused on creating high-quality learning environments using evidence-based practices. Lambert is a mom of four, a grandma of four, a world traveler, and a collector of stories.

As the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Lambert explores the increasing body of scientific research around how reading is best taught. As a former classroom teacher, administrator, and curriculum developer, Lambert is dedicated to turning theory into best practices that educators can put right to use in the classroom, and to showcasing national models of reading instruction excellence.

Retrato de una mujer caucásica sonriente con cabello rubio corto, involucrada en un podcast sobre la ciencia de la lectura, con gafas, lápiz labial rojo y un collar de perlas.

Quotes

“When you begin to read, you really have to analyze everything in front of you. The letter, the shape of the letter, how it connects to the sound. And proficient readers just look at the whole thing and they grab it—and it's like they heard it. It is almost no difference. I speak; I read; it's a continuous stream of language and I just grab it.”

—Ioulia Kovelman, Ph.D.

“We talked about languages being different. They're exercising slightly different muscles of your language system.”

—Ioulia Kovelman, Ph.D.

“Science is informed by teachers and children. We're all together. I do not teach children. Teachers don't usually do science. But we have to find ways of connecting with each other.”

—Ioulia Kovelman, Ph.D.

Season 9, Episode 6

Making high-quality text free and accessible, with Susanne Nobles

In this episode, Susan Lambert chats with ReadWorks Chief Academic Officer Susanne Nobles, Ph.D., to explore her organization’s mission of making high-quality texts free and accessible to all. Together, they discuss ReadWorks’ Article-A-Day program, which offers articles to build students’ knowledge and vocabulary while supporting teachers with resources that promote topical coherence. Susanne shares insights into why text quality matters, including that kids know when text isn’t worth their time and attention. She also details how ReadWorks ensures the quality of their materials, describes the Spanish-English texts they’ve introduced to support multilingual/English learners, and offers advice for listeners thinking about text quality and cohesion.

A person with long, light brown hair and glasses smiling in front of a background with book and lightbulb icons.

Meet Our Guest(s):

Susanne Nobles, Ph.D.

Susanne Nobles, Ph.D.

Susanne Nobles, Ph.D., has spent her career working to empower educators and students with research, structures, and tools for meaningful and effective learning. She is currently Chief Academic Officer at ReadWorks, an educational technology nonprofit, where she oversees research, pedagogy, and product. Before joining ReadWorks, she led the Digital Promise’s collaborative work with developers, researchers, and educators for the Learner Variability Project. Susanne is also an adjunct instructor at American University’s School of Education and Relay Graduate School of Education. She was a K–12 teacher and administrator for over 20 years, and her doctoral research focused on creating effective digital communities of practice to support student writing.

Meet our host, Susan Lambert

Susan Lambert is the Chief Academic Officer of Elementary Humanities at Amplify, and the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast. Throughout her career, she has focused on creating high-quality learning environments using evidence-based practices. Lambert is a mom of four, a grandma of four, a world traveler, and a collector of stories.

As the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Lambert explores the increasing body of scientific research around how reading is best taught. As a former classroom teacher, administrator, and curriculum developer, Lambert is dedicated to turning theory into best practices that educators can put right to use in the classroom, and to showcasing national models of reading instruction excellence.

Retrato de una mujer caucásica sonriente con cabello rubio corto, involucrada en un podcast sobre la ciencia de la lectura, con gafas, lápiz labial rojo y un collar de perlas.

Quotes

“It can be hard to remember that there’s a lot going into my reading today [that] I didn't have all along.”

—Susanne Nobles

“I have a fear that too much decoding practice can become ‘Why am I reading?’ We lose the ultimate point of why all of us read, which is to learn and to gain meaning.”

—Susanne Nobles

“Kids know when a text is worth their time.”

—Susanne Nobles

“We want to put a great book in a kid’s hands and have them get excited about reading and therefore get good at reading. And it really goes the other way. And so it’s once you build that ability to read, then that excitement comes with reading.”

—Susanne Nobles

Season 9, Episode 5

What makes a literate brain, with Lori Josephson

On this episode of the podcast, Lori Josephson joins Susan to talk about her new book Calling All Neurons! How Reading and Spelling Happen. Lori discusses her journey into literacy and how she saw the need for an accessible, digestible book about the brain science behind learning to read — one that would be enjoyable for adults and students alike. Lori explains what a neuron is and shows how understanding neural networks is essential to understanding learning to read. She also delves into the importance of getting everyone in a student’s life involved in their literacy development. Lori and Susan also answer some listener-submitted questions, prompting discussions on how to help older elementary students who lack foundational skills and advice for educators who work with students with significant cognitive disabilities.

A smiling woman with curly hair is framed in a circular border, set against a background of books and lightbulb icons.

Meet Our Guest(s):

Lori C. Josephson

Lori C. Josephson

Lori Josephson is an expert in dyslexia who is a Fellow of the Orton Gillingham Academy and holds a master’s degree in special education–learning disabilities. She has had the privilege of teaching hundreds of struggling students how to make sense of print and text. She has also had the honor of working with thousands of teachers, training them how to teach and reach their students using methods based upon the complex brain processes involved in attaining literacy—the body of knowledge now referred to as the Science of Reading.

Meet our host, Susan Lambert

Susan Lambert is the Chief Academic Officer of Elementary Humanities at Amplify, and the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast. Throughout her career, she has focused on creating high-quality learning environments using evidence-based practices. Lambert is a mom of four, a grandma of four, a world traveler, and a collector of stories.

As the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Lambert explores the increasing body of scientific research around how reading is best taught. As a former classroom teacher, administrator, and curriculum developer, Lambert is dedicated to turning theory into best practices that educators can put right to use in the classroom, and to showcasing national models of reading instruction excellence.

Retrato de una mujer caucásica sonriente con cabello rubio corto, involucrada en un podcast sobre la ciencia de la lectura, con gafas, lápiz labial rojo y un collar de perlas.

Quotes

“I firmly believe that no matter how old you are, you still need to learn the same information.”

—Lori Josephson

“In my mind, I use this equation. Knowledge equals motivation, equals active learning, equals resilience, equals success.”

—Lori Josephson

“Creating a literate brain is a team sport. Everyone needs to be involved. The parents, caregivers, teachers—they need to be engaged in an interactive way.”

—Lori Josephson

“Literacy is a civil right. It's also a gift. It's an opportunity to share thoughts, feelings with others that can be revisited and saved.”

—Lori Josephson

Season 9, Episode 4

Comprehension is not a skill, with Hugh Catts, Ph.D.

In this episode Susan Lambert is joined by Hugh Catts, Ph.D., professor at Florida State University, to break down what comprehension is and bust some myths about what it isn’t. With a family history of dyslexia, he has a personal connection to the topic that led him into research in language sciences and language disorders. He discusses how his findings moved him away from viewing comprehension as simply a “component of reading” but rather something entirely separate—a condition created over time, defined by purpose, and influenced by prior knowledge. Together, Susan and Hugh address many comprehension-related concepts, such as the Simple View of Reading, the five pillars of reading, and comprehension’s relationship to knowledge building. Hugh also gives listeners practical advice for helping students suss out their comprehension before reading, and he clarifies why understanding the standard of coherence is important.

Meet Our Guest(s):

Hugh Catts, Ph.D.

Hugh Catts, Ph.D.

Hugh Catts’s research interests include the early identification and prevention of reading disabilities. He is a former board member of the International Dyslexia Association and former president of the Society for the Scientific Study of Reading. He has received the Samuel T. Orton Award, the International Dyslexia Association’s highest honor, and the Honors of the Association Award from the American Speech-Language-Hearing Association, for his career contributions in these disciplines. His current research concerns the early identification of reading and language difficulties and the nature and assessment of reading comprehension problems.

Meet our host, Susan Lambert

Susan Lambert is the Chief Academic Officer of Elementary Humanities at Amplify, and the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast. Throughout her career, she has focused on creating high-quality learning environments using evidence-based practices. Lambert is a mom of four, a grandma of four, a world traveler, and a collector of stories.

As the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Lambert explores the increasing body of scientific research around how reading is best taught. As a former classroom teacher, administrator, and curriculum developer, Lambert is dedicated to turning theory into best practices that educators can put right to use in the classroom, and to showcasing national models of reading instruction excellence.

Retrato de una mujer caucásica sonriente con cabello rubio corto, involucrada en un podcast sobre la ciencia de la lectura, con gafas, lápiz labial rojo y un collar de perlas.

Transcripts and additional resources:

Read:
Rethinking How to Promote Reading Comprehension by Hugh Catts
Read:
The Simple View of Reading: Advancements and False Impressions by Hugh Catts

Quotes

“If you learn how to swim, you can swim in a lake, a pool, an ocean, whatever. But that's not the case for comprehension. You can't learn to comprehend and then take that out into different situations for different purposes. You can learn some things that will help you, but in general, it's the topic and purpose that are going to impact how well you understand something.”

–Hugh Catts, Ph.D.

“If I was going to define comprehension, it's not a single thing. I mean, that's the problem. We want it to be a single thing, but it depends upon what you're reading and why you're reading it.”

–Hugh Catts, Ph.D.

“What comprehension is is the interaction of what you bring into that reading situation and what you already know about it, and your motivation and purpose to comprehend it.”

–Hugh Catts, Ph.D.

“There's just not enough mental reserve to be able to build that meaning that quickly. So it helps tremendously that you have some knowledge about it beforehand. That knowledge gives you a place to put information. So when you read about something, it gives you storage for the information. It's kind of like a cubby hole that you put the mail in, in an office.”

–Hugh Catts, Ph.D.

Season 9, Episode 3

S9 E3: Know the non-negotiables in a program aligned to the Science of Reading, with Kari Kurto

On this episode, Kari Kurto, National Science of Reading Project Director at The Reading League, discusses The Reading League’s curriculum evaluation tool, which assesses a curriculum’s research-based practices. Kurto’s conversation with Susan Lambert touches on her background teaching students with dyslexia, the non-negotiables in curriculum aligned to the Science of Reading, and how educators can use information about an evaluated curriculum to inform instruction. While Kurto stresses that no program is perfect, she and her colleagues have worked to equip educators with a tool to more easily and objectively access information when making curriculum choices.

A woman with shoulder-length blond hair wearing a black blazer and patterned blouse smiles in a circular frame. The background features light bulb and pencil icons, subtly hinting at research-based instructional strategies for reading.

Meet Our Guest(s):

Kari Kurto

Kari Kurto

Kari Kurto is the National Science of Reading Project Director at The Reading League. She directs all work related to The Reading League Compass, the Curriculum Evaluation Guidelines, and the Curriculum Navigation Reports. She also leads work to support multilingual and English learners and runs several communities of practice. Kari is a Path Forward advisory group member and has presented to schools, districts, professional organizations, and state education departments. She formerly worked as a literacy specialist at the Rhode Island Department of Education, leading statewide efforts to implement the Rhode Island Right to Read Act. Kari is an Orton Gillingham practitioner who worked at Middlebridge School in Narragansett, RI and Rawson Saunders School in Austin, TX. Before her career in education, Kari worked as a casting director in Los Angeles. She and her three wonderful children live in southern Rhode Island.

Meet our host, Susan Lambert

Susan Lambert is the Chief Academic Officer of Elementary Humanities at Amplify, and the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast. Throughout her career, she has focused on creating high-quality learning environments using evidence-based practices. Lambert is a mom of four, a grandma of four, a world traveler, and a collector of stories.

As the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Lambert explores the increasing body of scientific research around how reading is best taught. As a former classroom teacher, administrator, and curriculum developer, Lambert is dedicated to turning theory into best practices that educators can put right to use in the classroom, and to showcasing national models of reading instruction excellence.

Retrato de una mujer caucásica sonriente con cabello rubio corto, involucrada en un podcast sobre la ciencia de la lectura, con gafas, lápiz labial rojo y un collar de perlas.

Quotes

“[On dyslexia instruction] It's instruction that we know that all students should have, because that's the instruction that is most aligned to the scientific evidence. But it's instruction that they need with multiple practice opportunities and multiple repetitions.”

—Kari Kurto

“Just because we have this report and we say, ‘All right, this curriculum has all the stuff,’ if you don't teach it, then you're a red flag of your own.”

—Kari Kurto

“Thank you to those folks who have been listening. Thank you to the folks who are curious about learning more, those who have spent years implementing and tweaking and improving literacy outcomes for our country's next generation. I mean, that's huge.”

—Kari Kurto

“It's a movement of improvement, right? We're constantly striving to improve. And don't give up. Share your stories; share your success stories.”

—Kari Kurto

Season 9, Episode 1

Literacy as a catalyst for change, with Ray James

In the Season 9 premiere of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Susan Lambert speaks with Ray James, Head of School at The Ansley School, about the transformative impact of literacy instruction. The Ansley School, which serves children experiencing homelessness, has made evidence-based literacy instruction a key piece of its efforts to foster profound educational and community change. Ray shares his journey and explores how a focus on literacy provides benefits that extend beyond the classroom to the broader community. This episode underscores the importance of foundational literacy skills and sets the stage for a new season dedicated to a literacy reboot.

 

A bald man with a goatee is smiling in a portrait photo. The background, hinting at the world of literacy instruction, has a charming pattern of lightbulbs, pencils, and books.

Meet Our Guest(s):

Ray James

Ray James

Ray James is Head of School at The Ansley School in Atlanta, Georgia. Born and raised in north Louisiana, Ray is a critically conscious and outcomes-driven educational leader with nearly 15 years of experience in various roles, including substitute teacher, literacy teacher, instructional coach, and assistant principal. He holds degrees from Louisiana State University and is passionately committed to fostering educational equity and supporting the limitless potential of all children. Under his leadership, The Ansley School provides holistic education to children experiencing homelessness, emphasizing the transformative power of structured literacy. Outside of work, Ray enjoys spending time with his family and is an avid fan of the Los Angeles Lakers and LSU Tigers.

Meet our host, Susan Lambert

Susan Lambert is the Chief Academic Officer of Elementary Humanities at Amplify, and the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast. Throughout her career, she has focused on creating high-quality learning environments using evidence-based practices. Lambert is a mom of four, a grandma of four, a world traveler, and a collector of stories.

As the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Lambert explores the increasing body of scientific research around how reading is best taught. As a former classroom teacher, administrator, and curriculum developer, Lambert is dedicated to turning theory into best practices that educators can put right to use in the classroom, and to showcasing national models of reading instruction excellence.

Retrato de una mujer caucásica sonriente con cabello rubio corto, involucrada en un podcast sobre la ciencia de la lectura, con gafas, lápiz labial rojo y un collar de perlas.

Quotes

“Ultimately, kids can thrive and grow in conditions that you may not ever have imagined. I want our school to prove nature's law is wrong.”

—Ray James

“We aim to shift the standard. Good simply cannot be good enough for populations experiencing extreme trauma. Literacy is the key to unlocking imagination, creativity, and transformation.”

—Ray James

“Education isn't just about academics—it's about creating a safe place and providing holistic, evidence-based literacy instruction that catalyzes real change.”

—Ray James

“We’re not just doing school, but educating people. I think a lot of people do school, we’re trying to educate our community holistically.”

—Ray James

“Our goal is not just to do school differently, but to prove that with the right support, students can achieve beyond expectations.”

—Ray James

“If you don't get reading right in an elementary school, every piece of the school suffers.”

—Ray James

Season 9, Episode 2

Standards are the 'what' and curriculum is the 'how,' with Sue Pimentel

In this episode, Susan Lambert welcomes back Sue Pimentel to discuss the history and impact of the Common Core State Standards on English Language Arts and Literacy (ELA) education in the United States. Susan and Sue revisit what the standards were designed to focus on: knowledge building, college and career readiness, and fluency in both literary and informational texts. Their conversation covers the importance of text complexity, the lack of a research base to support leveled readers, knowledge building as a matter of equity, and content as a matter of access. While acknowledging the value of these standards, the discussion also highlights their limitations. Sue underscores the importance of always returning to the research to ensure students are truly learning, being prepared to navigate the world, and ultimately, to live happier lives.

A woman with curly dark hair smiles at the camera in front of a background with icons of light bulbs, books, and pencils, perfectly capturing her passion for knowledge building and love for the science of reading podcast.

Meet Our Guest(s):

Susan Pimentel

Susan Pimentel

Susan Pimentel is a founding partner of two nonprofits devoted to accelerating student achievement, StandardsWork and Student Achievement Partners. For four decades her work has focused on advancing meaningful and enduring education reforms—characterized by stakeholder buy-in—that champion proven tools for increasing academic rigor and student preparation. She has served as lead writer of the Common Core State Standards for English Language Arts and Literacy and chief architect of the American Diploma Project, two initiatives designed to close the gap between high school and postsecondary demands. In addition, Susan served two terms on the National Assessment Governing Board, an independent, bipartisan board that sets policy for the national assessment. She became vice-chair of the body in her second term. One of her most widely-read publications includes a 2018 EducationWeek op-ed “Why Doesn’t Every Teacher Know the Research on Reading Instruction?” Others include “Reading as Liberation: An Examination of the Research Base” and “Scaling the “Dinosaur Effect”: Topic vs. Theme in Elementary Classrooms,” both co-authored with literacy experts Meredith and David Liben. She holds a bachelor’s degree in early childhood education and a law degree from Cornell University.

Meet our host, Susan Lambert

Susan Lambert is the Chief Academic Officer of Elementary Humanities at Amplify, and the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast. Throughout her career, she has focused on creating high-quality learning environments using evidence-based practices. Lambert is a mom of four, a grandma of four, a world traveler, and a collector of stories.

As the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Lambert explores the increasing body of scientific research around how reading is best taught. As a former classroom teacher, administrator, and curriculum developer, Lambert is dedicated to turning theory into best practices that educators can put right to use in the classroom, and to showcasing national models of reading instruction excellence.

Retrato de una mujer caucásica sonriente con cabello rubio corto, involucrada en un podcast sobre la ciencia de la lectura, con gafas, lápiz labial rojo y un collar de perlas.

Quotes

“Vocabulary is how we describe concepts. It's how we know how to talk to one another. And vocabulary development weaves its way through all four domains in the standards. All four—reading, writing, listening and speaking, and language.”

—Sue Pimentel

“What the standards say is, ‘Leveled texts are out and complex texts are in.’ There's no research behind assigning a level to students' reading and then sort of imprisoning them in that.”

—Sue Pimentel

“Text complexity level is critical for students to be able to do well when they leave school and also so they can independently read texts and other sorts of sources on their own as well.”

—Sue Pimentel

“So standards are really important, right? Because they allow a meeting of the minds in terms of this is what our students need to be learning. It's like a compact, if you will, with our students and our parents and the public to say, ‘This is what you can expect your students to be learning.’”

—Sue Pimentel

“The standards define the ‘what’ importantly: the level of complexity, the level of sophistication, etcetera. But the curriculum tells us how to do the ‘what’ well, and how to use the literacy research to make sure all students get access.”

—Sue Pimentel

“The more stuff you know, the better you're able to navigate the world. Whether that means as a citizen…as a worker…as a college student…as a mom or dad—whatever it is—the more you know about stuff, the better off and I think the happier life is. And certainly the happier kids' lives are when they're actually learning stuff.”

—Sue Pimentel

“The whole notion is that the content matters. What I'm reading about matters; and how I get through that content matters; and how I get access to that content matters—which means I'm building my knowledge slowly but surely.”

—Sue Pimentel